A Feminist Man and his Desperate Effort to Undermine the Submissive Woman

The below is written in the style of a comment responding to Matthew Chiglinsky who made a series of comments challenging Jojo’s article “Submission” at Simple Southern Spirit as part of a debate or discussion between Jojo and Matthew Chiglinsky in the comments section:

Matthew Chiglinsky, your exchange with Jojo here has been very interesting. First of all I wonder why you seem to be personally invested in Jojo turning feminist on everybody, it is like you are irritated by her publicly declaring her intention to be submissive as a woman and as a future wife. What is it to you? It is interesting to me why a feminist man (you certainly seem to be a feminist man) doesn’t like the idea of a submissive woman out there being submissive even when the feminist man has no contact with her in his daily life. It is almost like the very idea of a submissive woman somehow undermines the feminist man’s ego of how great he is because of his belief in “women’s equality.” I suppose the implicit criticism of the feminist man is obvious when a woman declares her intention to submit publicly in a feminist world like Jojo is doing here. But why in the world would a woman actually reject a man who believes in “gender equality?” That is impossible isn’t it? It makes no sense! I’ll tell you why a woman might not like a feminist man. It is because the feminist man is refusing his duty to provide for and protect the woman as he should, as he is obligated to do as a man by falsely and disingenuously declaring the woman “equal” in order to absolve himself of his responsibilities towards her.

Responding to some of the specific things Matthew said in his series of comments:

Matthew Chiglinsky said:

“This is how I would talk to a submissive female like you:

‘You’re wasting my time. Shut your stupid mouth, go in the kitchen, and make dinner. Later on, we’ll have sex. Got it? Now, go.’”

I realize Matthew is being rhetorical here, that this is not really how Matthew tends to talk to women, but what Matthew is assuming here is that a man with a submissive wife will tend to view his wife in an aggressive and hostile and demeaning way as if a woman submitting all by itself means that the wife is deserving of nothing but contempt. This fits with the idea that a man wanting submission in a woman is automatically or presumptively an abusive man because only a man wanting to abuse women would want a woman who submits to him.

Matthew has got the psychology of male dominance and female submission all wrong here. A woman submitting to a man is a very intimate and love promoting thing for both the man and the woman; it indicates strong trust and strong approval of the man by the woman and a man knows this and can feel this. A man is grateful and is honored by a wife who submits to him encouraging the man to love the woman and care for the woman even more strongly. Also a woman who is submissive is a very safe woman, a safe woman to invest in, a safe woman to dedicate ones purpose in life to as a man. It feels very unsafe to strongly invest in and gives ones purpose in life to a feminist wife because the feminist wife will betray you and rob you every time because the feminist wife ultimately has contempt for you as a man. This is why the woman is a feminist in the first place; because of her fear of men and because of her contempt for men, her attitude that she must abuse the man first because she knows the man has nothing but bad intentions towards her anyways and she must and has the right to attack / defend herself from the man.

Another issue I’d like to bring up, the way Matthew is suggesting dominant men talk to submissive women is certainly abusive in tone and attitude. It does bring up the issue of how such an abusive attitude by a husband should be dealt with. First such behavior by a husband towards his wife is certainly contemptible and not acceptable especially if it is a routine thing and not the result of a current hopefully occasional argument. Matthew seems to be presenting such behavior by a husband as routine or ordinary if the husband is dominant overall in which case such behavior by a husband would certainly count as abuse against the wife. If in addition to such emotional abuse and insults by the husband being routine the husband could be shown to be neglecting or abusing his wife in material or practical ways then I would be inclined to treat such abuse by a husband against his wife as criminal or grounds for divorce with the husband being at fault meaning the husband would bear full financial responsibility for the support of his wife after a divorce based on the husband’s fault on the grounds of mental cruelty perhaps. It is tricky to try to determine what level of abuse should be criminal or grounds for divorce but at some point of severity certainly abuse by a husband towards his wife should reach a criminal threshold or be grounds for divorce with the husband at fault meaning full financial responsibility in continued support of his wife after the divorce for the husband.

If the husband is starting to be abusive towards his wife but things are not severe enough for divorce or criminal sanctions then certainly other men should be intervening on the woman’s behalf telling the man his behavior towards his wife is disgraceful and unmanly and unacceptable and that some kind of social punishments or loss of face will be inflicted upon him if he doesn’t stop. Maybe the husband’s male friends could intervene in this way, maybe the wife’s male relatives, maybe male authority figures from the church the husband goes to could intervene and counsel him, maybe the husband’s male neighbors he is friends with. An intermediate level of abuse not criminal but also not right and not acceptable should definitely elicit a protective response on behalf of the woman by men influential in the husband’s life to let the man know that he has crossed a boundary in how he is treating his wife that will not be tolerated.

If Matthew thinks a man is a law unto himself and he can treat his wife however he wishes and get away with it he is very wrong.

Matthew ends his comment where he is addressing Jojo saying:

“Why the hell should I care what you think, when you don’t even respect yourself enough to argue? If my opinion is the final say, then the words that come out of your mouth are just noise.”

This comment reflects a very messed up idea of how a dominant man presumably would or should view his submissive wife. Why should a husband care what his wife thinks? Because she’s his wife! Because she’s the love of his life and the mother of his children! Because she honors and respects and loves him as a man which is what her submissiveness towards him is telling him. Because the husband needs to know what his wife is thinking in order to be able to make good and competent decisions as a husband and to be able to manage and control and keep harmonious his relationship with his wife. Because it’s easier to meet your wife’s needs if you know what your wife’s needs are.

A wife doesn’t respect herself if she’s not always ready and eager to get into an argument and power struggle for dominance with her husband? This is a rather strange idea. This implies a woman’s self-respect is based on her relative power vis a vis her husband in the masculine realm. Surely a woman can respect herself and feel proud of herself because she is a good wife and a good mother and her children being well behaved and her husband being happy to see her will provide the feedback to her that she needs to reassure herself and build her confidence that she is succeeding as a woman; that she is succeeding as a wife and a mother. Surely this kind of positive reinforcement is enough for a woman to feel confident and respect herself.

If the husband has the final say the words coming out of the wife’s mouth are just noise? This is ridiculous on so many levels for so many reasons. In addition to the reasons I have already mentioned what about the joy of talking with your spouse, the intimacy of conversation, just sharing feelings and desires with someone who cares about you and is on your side? This idea that only power struggle and who gets their way matters is very wrong headed.

Matthew also addressed the issue of sex and emotional connection:

“Submissive wives are also wives who won’t enjoy sex. They’ll just lie there and let their husbands go to work, maybe even faking an orgasm just to try to please their husbands and make them feel like they accomplished something. There’s no real emotional connection. The husbands don’t care. The wives are numb.”

Matthew, haven’t you heard the news? Women love dominance in a man. Dominance is hot and a prime need for a woman to feel sexually attracted to a man. Also the emotional connection between a dominant man and a submissive woman is very strong because of the trust and positive affirmation and caretaking and sense of responsibility involved in the man being dominant and the woman accepting and surrendering to the man’s dominance. Also as I said before a submissive woman is very safe to emotionally and materially invest as a man because you as a man don’t have to watch your back or fear attack all the time or worry that the next power struggle on the horizon might go horribly wrong. The idea that fighting for dominance and angling for advantage all the time is the basis for “real emotional connection” is completely crazy. Dominance and submission is much more conducive to emotional connection than constant fighting and looking out for number one.

Matthew closes things out with a zinger against Jojo trying to undermine her self-confidence as a woman and create fear in her regarding her ability to attract men. Ironically enough trying to get Jojo to shut her damn mouth at the end of his tirade against her as a submissive woman. I actually think the comment is quite underhanded and is a low blow, though it is a routine style of attack feminists use quite often against their women foes. Here it is!

“I hope the irony of arguing about being submissive is not lost on you. Even if I wanted a submissive wife, how could I trust you to be one when you don’t know how to shut your mouth?”

I’ll close with Jojo’s own brilliant response to Matthew’s nonsense attack against her. These are the words of a very wise woman:

“I don’t see any irony. Submission does not equate to passiveness. The two work together at times, but they are different things. As a matter of fact, because I value my femininity and because submission is a vital part of femininity, I would be wrong if I were passive about it. There’d be no point in me valuing it if I’m not going to defend it.

I believe I do know when I should “keep my mouth shut.” When someone’s belittling me or degrading me, what I believe, and my role as a woman, that’s not one of those times.”

Advertisements

About Jesse Powell TFA

Anti-Feminist, MRA, Pro-Traditional Women's Rights Traditional Family Activist (TFA)
This entry was posted in Gender Politics Analysis and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

5 Responses to A Feminist Man and his Desperate Effort to Undermine the Submissive Woman

  1. Eric says:

    Perhaps Matthew is a submissive man who needs dominant women to order and structure his world, and he resents submissive women for sabotaging his submissive needs. His comments remind me of women who demean submissive men.

  2. Jojo says:

    I was completely baffled by his comments, especially since he says he’s not a feminist. He, like most people, automatically assumes a man in a position of authority would be abusive. What people who think like this miss is that with authority comes responsibility. Of course a man in authority could be abusive, but that would be irresponsible of him and he should either stop abusing his authority, or not be in that position at all.

    I don’t think it’s my place to say what a man prefers in a woman, but the idea that a man would feel more passion for a woman who fights with him doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t understand the idea that fighting causes passion, but it seems to be a common idea. If that were the case my parents should be the happiest married couple around! To me a wife who seeks to fight with her husband and win disrespects his masculinity because authority is a vital part of masculinity. That’s only going to cause problems. It’s essentially a power struggle.

    If you have to fight with someone to love them, that’s not a person you should be with. It’s a dysfunctional relationship. One of the main points of a relationship, especially a marriage is to work together. You can’t maintain an identity as an individual and be in a relationship with someone else at the same time. The modern view of relationships is just all wrong.

    My initial response to that last comment was honestly just to laugh! I was taken aback. It seemed he was irritated that I wouldn’t submit to his point of view all the while being offended by my advocacy of female submission. And he was greatly confusing submission with passiveness. It’s amusing to me that people see women like myself as weak-minded and insecure and then become infuriated when we defend ourselves.

    Anyhow, I’m glad you liked my response! I wouldn’t call myself wise, but I like the fact that someone else would :).

  3. What Matthew said in his comments responding to your “Submission” post certainly sounded feminist to me. If he claimed to not be a feminist I would be curious on what basis he says that. Of course MRAs will vehemently deny they are feminists even though a lot of what MRAs say is very feminist itself.

    It is unfortunate people tend to assume a man wanting to be dominant necessarily has sinister motives in mind. More than that though people seem to think that if a man is more powerful than the woman in a relationship then the man will kind of fall into being abusive just by accident or because the temptation to abuse is too great or something. The idea that a man wants to be powerful to be good, to be able to be good, never seems to cross their minds. Of course women being powerful is good because the woman has to overcome all the oppression arrayed against her but a man wanting to be dominant? That is just sick! The false narrative of feminism is very well crafted and very well developed and endlessly reinforced by the culture. As far as men potentially abusing their authority; anyone who posseses authority can always abuse their authority but people need authority to be able to do anything good in their lives. The problem with feminism is not empowering women per se, it is empowering women in the masculine realm that causes the problem. You mentioned a man abusing his authority should either stop or not be in the authority position at all. Let’s not forget punishment though, men abusing their authority should be punished for their wrongful acts. Trying to remove authority from a man can be very disruptive and harmful in its own right so punishing a man abusing his authority is always a legitimate response.

    As far as the woman willing to get into a fight being more passionate and being something a man would prefer to a submissive woman, I think I know what Matthew is talking about here. Matthew is thinking his choice is between a submissive woman who never stands up for herself and never has her own opinions and just lays there during sex and probably walks around sulking and being depressed a lot and just passively does what she’s told making him feel like a meany or a lively feminist woman who asserts herself and argues and has her own opinions and takes initiative with her life and supports herself and maintains herself without much need of his input and takes initiative in sex and is a woman who is with him because he has impressed her as a man and feels he adds something to her life.

    In other words in Matthew’s eyes the submissive woman is emotionally absent from the relationship; she doesn’t think, she doesn’t argue, she doesn’t take initiative, she just lays there during sex, she does what she’s told but otherwise does nothing, she has no standards for the man she is expecting the man to live up to, and she probably has emotional problems that are a downer to be around.

    What Matthew doesn’t imagine as a possibility is an engaged submissive woman who is submissive in support of the man, who submits to the man to support the man. Matthew thinks submission is withdrawal and abandonment, I see the woman submitting as active support for myself as a man. Matthew thinks the woman submits to him because she is weak and incapable of making demands on a man; I think a woman submits to me because she is so impressed with me and trusts me so much that I am the one man she has found that she wants to submit to the most.

    Matthew is comparing the feminist woman to his caricature of a submissive woman and he likes the feminist woman better. This is just like a woman who compares a feminist man to the caricature of a dominant man lusting after power to abuse the woman as much as possible and deciding she likes the feminist man better.

    Matthew doesn’t understand that a woman can pursue a positive purpose as a wife without fighting being involved because to Matthew a wife’s positive purpose has to be something she asserts in her own right rather than the wife’s positive purpose being something the husband assigned to her with the wife agreeing to marry her husband in the first place because she liked the role the husband intended to assign to her in the marriage.

    As far as Matthew’s parting shot against you, I am glad you took it in stride and wasn’t rattled by it; it definitely encouraged me however in trying to defend your honor as a woman! It is amusing how Matthew was definitely trying to assert dominance over you and how he was irritated by you not playing along with the script he wrote for you about how a submissive woman should act. If you’re going to be submissive then you should be submissive according to how he tells you to be submissive damn it! There’s nothing more insulting than a submissive woman refusing to submit to you!

    In all seriousness your post and your follow up comments were very good, your final parting shot being the best of all. There’s nothing that I like more than a submissive woman willing to stand up for herself; that’s the best kind of submissive woman there is. 🙂

  4. Pingback: American Women | The Reinvention of Man

  5. Ya’ll have no idea what this man is capable of – he is SO sick… you should try tracking him throughout the internet, he does this kind of thing (cyberbullying females and homosexuals, Christians, and Atheists) almost like career.

    Some sample comments he posted on my blog:

    “Bikinis are slutty, materialistic, and pretentious. Jesus Christ. Modern females are such brainwashed, weak sex objects. It’s no wonder you get raped. Don’t wonder why men don’t respect you. Do you notice that men don’t usually wear bikinis? You females have “sexy” confused with “feminine”.

    I see you wear tops with cleavage showing too, also like a typical slutty modern female. You’re really cute, but really we don’t need to see the folds of your breasts. I take back what I said about you being a good wife/mother. I don’t know you. I shouldn’t jump to conclusions. I’m just surprised at the recent anti-sexual posts on my blog where you clicked “Like” (as if you agree?) and then you post this sex garbage. I put faith in no one. People are all corrupt.” Matthew Chiglinsky

    “Shaving legs is misogynistic, sexy but abusive, an unnatural chore and a burden to place upon women. Grooming nails … do I have to read all of this sexist garbage? Ugh. How about men just don’t get married? You women all have such low self-esteem I don’t think you’re worthy of marriage. MAYBE MEN SHOULD JUST USE YOU ALL LIKE THE WHORES YOU ARE..” Matthew Chiglinsky

    “Sexy undies and oral sex? YOU’RE A WHORE, A WHORE WHO JUST HAPPENED TO GET MARRIED. It’s amazing how many whores there are on the Internet. It’s like you whores can’t get enough attention from real men in your life so you come here on the Internet to get it from strangers by talking about sex for no good reason. I talk about sex on my blog a lot, to condemn it, because I tried it and found it to be unhealthy. Remember, there will be no marriage in heaven.” Matthew Chiglinsky

    “You seem very materialistic and vain. Do you care about anything besides sex, food, and fashion? Do you and your husband actually cuddle and have meaningful conversations, or is your entire relationship based on you acting like a high-maintenance girly girl? What’s going to happen when you get older, and your sex appeal is gone? Divorce?”

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s