Rollo Tomassi’s Mistake in Shunning the Idealism and Women of His Youth

Rollo Tomassi of The Rational Male has a post up titled “That was then” with a sad wistful accompanying picture of a young teenage girl in a white dress holding the hand of the faded vanishing teenaged boy; the young couple who were together so long ago but no more as “that was then.” The picture seems to represent an image from Rollo Tomassi’s past as he relates in his article that when he was young, in his late teens before turning 21, that he would have eagerly married one of his first long term relationship (LTR) girlfriends presumably if he could have. He relates that one of these LTR girlfriends rejected him when he was 19 or 20 years old with the “consolation prize” of suggesting that if they were both single when they were 30 years old that then they should marry each other. Rollo then waxes eloquently about how he is so glad this girl rejected him instead of him being sucked into a “Dream Killing” marriage with her before he understood the greater options he would have in the future as his Sexual Market Value (SMV) increased with his greater maturity and status that he would acquire as an older more successful more established man.

My impulse is that Rollo should have married one of his youthful LTRs; one of the major loves in his life that he had a relationship with before the age of 21, that one of those women is precisely the woman who would have been best for him psychologically and in terms of his moral purpose as a man. Instead he veered off on the wrong track starting at age 21 becoming a “player.”

Reading his post there is a lot of anger and contempt for women in general and particular hostility for the girl who rejected him setting him up as a “back up man” if him and her were still single at age 30. Interestingly as things turned out it appears that Rollo could have indeed married this girl when they were both 30 as by that time she was divorced with 2 kids and he was still single at that time (it appears) but by that time Rollo was not interested.

There is an awful lot of jargon in Rollo’s post making it a bit hard to keep track of what all he is saying and the logic behind it. Also a lot of claims are asserted about how women typically behave and think that I am suspicious of; that I suspect are not backed up by much evidence.

What I want to focus on is the merits of a man being a “back up man” for a woman later in life; this idea of a woman rejecting you in your youth but holding out the promise of potentially marrying you if you are both still single at a later date. Apparently this kind of “bargain” is not so rare.

The offensive statement Rollo is reacting to in his post is the woman saying:

“You’re such a great guy, but I’m not ready for a relationship right now. How about this, if neither of us is married when we’re 30 we’ll get married, ok?”

Rollo then “interprets” this as the woman in reality saying:

‘“Hey Beta chump, I like your dedication to the Disneyland narrative, and you’ll make for a dutiful and lucrative supporter once I’m 30 and done with the Alphas I really want to fuck while I’m in my prime, so how about you and I get married once I’m ready to finally ‘get it right with the right guy who was there all along’ okay?”

In other words, wait for me and be my Plan B guy just in case, ok?’

Now, I can understand the logic behind Rollo’s hostile interpretation of the woman’s rejection of him but if you just look at what the woman is actually saying there is no need to react with hostility. What the woman is saying is a perfectly reasonable statement and way of looking at things. Yes it is a rejection but it is a kindly worded rejection with a bit of hope thrown in there that is in the interests of both the man and the woman in the situation.

The woman is saying that she likes you, that you are part way good relationship material in her eyes, but that she doesn’t want to marry you now. At the same time she sees that in 10 years you might improve yourself or that she might be worse off and that it makes sense that she probably would accept marrying you if in 10 years she is single and you are single to. Nowhere in the woman’s statement is there an expectation that the man will “wait for her” until they are 30; instead if due to unfortunate circumstances for the both of them they are both single at age 30 then marrying each other is something she would be open to.

There is nothing sinister in a woman making this offer or giving this consolation prize to a man she is rejecting. Yes hearing this from a woman that you love and want to marry is sad and heartbreaking and probably traumatic because it is a rejection but the woman is not saying anything “bad” or “wrong” or abusive; she is just recognizing that things can change and is communicating to you that she is open to revisiting things with you at a later time when her status as a woman will be weaker and your status as a man will probably be stronger.

You have to understand as a man; if the woman is rejecting you then you’ve lost in regards to your hopes for a relationship with her. You failed, you lost, you didn’t measure up. That is just a fact. The woman is then telling you that she accepts you as a potential “Plan B” man in the future if you and her are still single at the age of 30. Be thankful for that. It is better that you be her “Plan B” man than to mean nothing to her at all. Maybe you will be very very thankful that you have a second chance at her come the time age 30 rolls around.

You don’t have the right to marry her in her youth in her prime if she rejects you in that role; you need to understand that. You want to marry her when she is young at her best when she has the most to offer to a man, that is completely understandable. You don’t always get what you want however. You aren’t necessarily her first choice when she is at her strongest and most desirable as a woman. At the same time you might very well be her first choice if you are still on the market and she is on the market to either never married or divorced as a 30 year old still relatively young woman. The thing is she doesn’t OWE YOU first prize and first preference; you either earned that status or you didn’t based on what she herself decides on that matter.

At the same time, you as the man definitely have no obligation to wait around until you are 30 so that you will still be “available” on the off chance she happens to be single to at that time. That is not an obligation or expectation she is placing on you in the first place and it is not a sane thing for you as the man to waste 10 years of your life “waiting for her.” That is not the point. The point is she is offering herself to you at a future time under the conditionality of you both being single at age 30.

A woman that you loved in high school has the potentiality of being a very very precious woman to you throughout your entire life. What you have to keep in mind when thinking about revisiting a love from your past is that this woman that you loved in high school; she will be older and diminished in value for men in general but if your love for her in high school was strong and powerful she will not have diminished in value for you at all. She will be young and beautiful to you even while being older and faded in the eyes of other men. If she is previously divorced you won’t really care about that because you knew her and loved her before she met the man she later divorced; you came first, you preceded her ex-husband. If she has children from her prior failed relationship that might be good and it might be bad; it depends on how closely what she can offer you in regards to children and family life matches what your ideal is in regards to children and family life. If you want children and she is too old to have additional biological children with you then her having children from her previous failed marriage is a very very good thing as it allows you to be a father in regards to the relationship experience of being a father and in terms of the social contribution of being a father.

A woman’s Sexual Market Value (SMV) declines in general as a woman gets older but you must consider the fact that the love of your life in high school will still be the love of your life throughout your entire life; that her SMV as it relates to you will not decline with age, that her youth will be preserved in regards to her value to you.

Reunions with Lost Loves or with a woman from your past; in particular with a woman you loved up until about age 22 from college or high school or middle school are the best strongest relationships of all with a very low divorce rate I will add. That is if your feelings towards the woman got fixed permanently in your brain and your psyche. A relationship with a woman from your past won’t be so great if there was an abuse dynamic between you two or if you never loved her that strongly in the first place or if your life goals and moral values are seriously in conflict at the time of your potential reunion with her. Barring those potential problems however a reunion with a woman from your past is a very good idea indeed if you are both single.

Different relationships have different strengths of the romantic bond underlying them. These can be categorized according to the man’s perception of the woman over time. If the man is actively with the woman romantically and the woman ages in the man’s eyes during the relationship that indicates the weakest bond. If the woman doesn’t seem to age while the relationship is active but a separation from the woman leads to the man losing the sense of the woman still being young that indicates a medium strength bond. The strongest bond is when the woman appears perpetually youthful and perpetually young in the man’s eyes even after an extended period of having no contact with the woman at all; this being what happens in a “Lost Love” situation where the reunion of such a couple produces a very strong emotional response and desire to be together. Reuniting with a woman from your youth who is a “Lost Love” makes a lot of sense as she will still be young and beautiful in your eyes regardless of her biological age. If however your original bond with her wasn’t so strong then the wisdom of revisiting the relationship with her at a later age is more iffy.

In Rollo’s post he talks about his idealism and naiveté before age 21 and his “Blue Pill conditioning” that would have set him up for being enslaved by “The Feminine Imperative” without the stroke of luck of him being rejected by one of his early youthful LTRs. This makes me kind of sad. It gives the impression that he loved women before age 21 ready and wanting to get married and willing to be a “good man” in terms of supporting a woman in her life goals as her husband but that after age 21 after his idealistic trusting window closed he turned cynical afraid of intimacy phobic of commitment full of resentment for women and their manipulative ways.

The women of your youth represent a resource for you over your entire life; your youth is the best time you have in terms of forming your strongest romantic bonds and setting your life course and establishing your identity and your purpose in life; an identity and purpose that may very well be connected to those members of the opposite sex who affected you most profoundly in your youth. If a woman you really truly love tells you you can revisit things with her when you are both older don’t throw that opportunity away because of wounded pride and resentment of her rejecting you in the first place. Instead learn from your mistakes and weaknesses that led to your failure with her the first time around and be very very grateful for the second chances she gives to you to be with her at a later point in life so that both you and her can have a second chance at happiness and love together at a later age if both you and her share the misfortune together of not being lucky with someone else when your second chance to be with your beloved from high school arrives.

 
Related article: Lost Love and the Importance of Marrying an Early Romantic Partner

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About Jesse Powell TFA

Anti-Feminist, MRA, Pro-Traditional Women's Rights Traditional Family Activist (TFA)
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97 Responses to Rollo Tomassi’s Mistake in Shunning the Idealism and Women of His Youth

  1. theasdgamer says:

    Reading his post there is a lot of anger and contempt for women in general

    Women can’t stand the rigid, unapologetic, firm Red Pill.

    What the woman is saying is a perfectly reasonable statement and way of looking at things.

    Reasonable for the Machiavellian woman. Reasonable for the deluded, gullible man. I agree.

    Yes it is a rejection but it is a kindly worded rejection with a bit of hope thrown in there that is in the interests of both the man and the woman in the situation.

    This is a lie. The man has no hope in the situation for a relationship with the woman in her youth. Yet that is what she is trying to sell him.

    The woman is saying that she likes you, that you are part way good relationship material in her eyes

    Running this through the Hamsterlator:

    She thinks you might be useful to pay for her children in the future. Not necessarily your children, either.

    At the same time she sees that in 10 years you might improve yourself or that she might be worse off

    Running this through the Hamsterlator:

    You might be making a lot more money and she might have 50 extra lbs. of cuteness, 5 babies by 3 different baby-daddies, a divorce or two as baggage, crows’ feet, etc.

    Ok, we get the point, lol.

  2. cheupez says:

    “If you want children and she is too old to have additional biological children with you then her having children from her previous failed marriage is a very very good thing as it allows you to be a father in regards to the relationship experience of being a father and in terms of the social contribution of being a father….

    You failed, you lost, you didn’t measure up. That is just a fact. The woman is then telling you that she accepts you as a potential “Plan B” man in the future if you and her are still single at the age of 30. Be thankful for that. It is better that you be her “Plan B” man than to mean nothing to her at all. Maybe you will be very very thankful that you have a second chance at her come the time age 30 rolls around….

    Interestingly as things turned out it appears that Rollo could have indeed married this girl when they were both 30 as by that time she was divorced with 2 kids and he was still single at that time (it appears) but by that time Rollo was not interested….”

    You honestly have no idea why Rollo was not interested?

  3. I’m curious to know what your advice would be for the husband in this article:
    http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

  4. Rollo Tomassi himself commenting at my little blog! I am impressed. 🙂

    I read your blog often, it is very interesting.

    You touched a nerve with me however on dismissing the idea of revisiting a Lost Love, especially a Lost Love from high school. I know from first hand experience that getting back with a Lost Love from high school can be a very wonderful thing. Read Nancy Kalish on the subject of Lost Loves to know more of what I am talking about.

    Nancy Kalish Lost and Found Loves
    http://www.lostlovers.com/

    I will definitely read the article that you recommended and respond in a comment or with a follow up post on the subject if I feel what I have to say on the matter is particularly good or particularly important.

  5. Regarding your “Saving the Best” post that is certainly a cringe inducing post. I feel like I can see where the man is coming from and where the woman is coming from both. In an objective sense the man is no worse off with this new knowledge of his wife’s past; indeed he is better off now that he has more leverage over her, that she is desperate to keep him and has to “perform for him better” in order to raise her value to him to try to keep the marriage together. Psychologically however the man is much worse off since a comfortable reassuring delusion that he previously held onto has been shattered. He is not the most attractive man to his wife; he does not have the greatest romantic desirability to his wife relative to other men. He held some narrative in his mind about how his wife felt about him and how his wife thought about him that is not true. Still his wife married him and not the various “studs” she had sex with enthusiastically in college. Presumably he has some special value to her that the other men lacked, at least that the other men who would have been willing to marry his wife lacked.

    There is the issue that the man made a solemn pledge to commit himself to this woman for the rest of his life and on the basis of that pledge this woman had a child with him. Even if the man regrets marrying this woman now he still made the decision that he made to marry her and he is obligated to maintain this commitment of marriage that he has made to his wife.

    I guess the broader philosophical issue in my mind is whether a husband is entitled to the best wife he could possibly have in a woman or if a husband is only entitled to the best the particular woman he chose to marry can be at a practical level. The wife in this story might very well be a dutiful and caring and considerate wife who loves her husband half-way. Perhaps that is the best she can offer to him; that she is simply not capable of loving him sexually with full passion because she simply is not maximally physically attracted to him. If this is the best she can offer to him he should be satisfied with that. He found such a relationship with this woman acceptable before. Maybe there is some woman out there that the husband truly in his heart of hearts loves more than his wife but that woman rejected him and so he married his second choice that was willing to accept him and settle for him.

    In real life you can’t expect to be able to marry the absolute best perfect woman or man for you; you work with what you’ve got. You deal with and accept reality.

    This is my initial take on your “Saving the Best” post.

    • theasdgamer says:

      There is the issue that the man made a solemn pledge to commit himself to this woman for the rest of his life

      His pledge was based on her disclosures, which were fraudulent due to incompleteness.

  6. teddj4g says:

    “If this is the best she can offer to him he should be satisfied with that. He found such a relationship with this woman acceptable before.”

    1. No human with a sense of self worth should ever accept less than 100% from a spouse. Her best isn’t good enough. Just like some men seeminly arent good enough to marry at 20, but can be kept on the back burner for 30. Good for goose, and the gander.

    2. He found such a relationship acceptable before he knew the full situation. In short he was led to believe (as most men) that a woman marrying him views him as her best. Ever. Period. When he learned otherwise, as a man with a sense of self worth he should eject and reject. The deal he made was NOT actually the deal she made.

    So tell me: why would any man stay with a woman that does not see him as her best? Why should any man “settle” on a lackluster sex life and a cranky wife? Why is a man somehow less that he should take whatever scraps he gets?

  7. “This makes me kind of sad. It gives the impression that he loved women before age 21 ready and wanting to get married and willing to be a “good man” in terms of supporting a woman in her life goals as her husband but that after age 21 after his idealistic trusting window closed he turned cynical afraid of intimacy phobic of commitment full of resentment for women and their manipulative ways…”

    Yes, it made me sad, too. Unrequited love, rejection, and now a man walled off behind his ideology, no longer believing in love. It’s downright tragic.

    • theasdgamer says:

      @Insanity

      a man walled off behind his ideology, no longer believing in love

      Rollo has said that he believes that God loves perfectly, men love idealistically, and women love opportunistically. But you must be correct that Rollo no longer believes in love. Because you’re a woman and women are perfect superior to men. And men are sinners and are deficient women.

      • theasdgamer says:

        The answer, of course, is that your ideology is based on the Pedestalization of Women. You are walled off behind your own ideology. How in the 1134 would you know whether Rollo was walled off behind an ideology?

      • Ah yes, yet another walled off man who doesn’t believe in love anymore…

        You guys seriously break my heart. I cannot think of anything worse.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Oh noes, I don’t beleifs in de luff. Woe is mes. Insanity, u r 2 much. 😄

        I believe in cherishing and nourishing my wife per Ephesians 5:29. If that’s not love….

      • “I believe in cherishing and nourishing my wife per Ephesians 5:29”

        The other day you believed in clubbing and spinning plates to keep your wife interested, your wife whom you mocked for still being in love with you.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Me mocking my wife? You are delusional.

      • I am not delusional. Those were your own words, were they not? You go clubbing and spin plates, believing that is the only way to keep her interested? Then you bragged about how Mrs Gamer was still in love with you.

        On you very own blog you said,

        “Freedom is what we men get when we avoid falling in love. Love women, but don’t fall in love with them.”

      • theasdgamer says:

        Of course I said that and it’s true. Going out and spinning plates is a solid strategy for a man. That doesn’t prevent nourishing and cherishing a wife.

        Since you obviously wear the pants in your marriage, I can see why you would object.

      • “Since you obviously wear the pants in your marriage…”

        Actually I’ve found that marriage works best when nobody is wearing any pants, but that’s beside the point.

        “Going out and spinning plates is a solid strategy for a man.”

        No, it is not. It is just sad. You are not building intimacy, you are creating fear and distrust.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Check out the Song of Solomon sometime. The Man is always going out. And the women are reporting to the Woman about the Man and how desirable he is. God must favor creating fear and distrust, too. So sad. Boo hoo.

        You might have trouble hearing me behind your ideological wall and all.

      • Oh, sheesh, like I said, you guys just break my heart. It’s sad enough you do not believe in love, but to then use scripture to try and justify your own wrong headedness just takes it to a whole new level of tragic.

      • theasdgamer says:

        It’s sad when your delusional ideology keeps you from receiving God’s Word.

      • Sweetheart, you are not God’s word. You are not God’s gift to women either. You are a married man who spins plates in clubs because you have swallowed a perversion of not only theology, but of red pill ideology too.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Babycakes, you’re so cute when you’re angry.

      • I’m not angry, just depressed because there are so many lost and broken men in the world.

      • theasdgamer says:

        @ Insanity

        [Patting you on the shoulder.]

        There there. Want some tea?

  8. stuttie says:

    In relationships with men, women are completely malleable. The girl you dated at 21, who screwed you over at 23, is not even the same person when you speak to her again at 28. This is because women are “empty vessels” who seek men to fill the void. Each time a woman gets together with a new man, it is based upon hypergamy – he becomes her new hero, and thus she completely adapts her morals and character to be his view of the ideal woman. When she grabs hold of the next branch, erm, man, all of her morals and character again change to adapt to be the new man’s ideal woman. When you look at it that way, how can one then ever assess a woman’s “true character?” It doesn’t exist.

    • teddj4g says:

      Interesting concept,

      Perhaps the trick is to find a woman who behaves in a manner you desire once she molds herself to you. To find a woman who reflects your guidance with a positive light.

      This concept fits into Rollo’s previous post on men being their “sisters keeper”, meaning based on your comment it may be possible to “keep” a woman on the straight and narrow simply by filling her vessel. (Pun not intended but it made me laugh on proof read)

      Of course this idea will send Strong Women into a tizzy, but it strikes me as plausible.

      Good food for thought.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Ted, if a woman is chasing you hard, she will mold herself into your frame. The trick is to keep her chasing you hard. Make sure that you have plenty of options.

  9. theasdgamer says:

    Actually I’ve found that marriage works best when nobody is wearing any pants,

    Both you and your hubbie wear skirts. Got it now. Thanks for clarifying.

  10. kobayashii1681 says:

    “You have to understand as a man; if the woman is rejecting you then you’ve lost in regards to your hopes for a relationship with her. You failed, you lost, you didn’t measure up. That is just a fact. The woman is then telling you that she accepts you as a potential “Plan B” man in the future if you and her are still single at the age of 30. Be thankful for that. ”

    A woman’s Sexual Market Value (SMV) declines in general as a woman gets older but you must consider the fact that the love of your life in high school will still be the love of your life throughout your entire life; that her SMV as it relates to you will not decline with age, that her youth will be preserved in regards to her value to you.

    This article though…..Delusion.

    • The Radical One says:

      Oh I tell you the immaturity level of MRAs just astounds me. You act like a bunch of high school boys who can’t grow up. But don’t worry this is REALLY just me chasing after you begging you to “fill my vessel.” Don’t listen to what us girls say. When we say “eww gross get away from me” that really means “I want you BADLY.”

      I’d almost laugh if it wasn’t so sad.

  11. Elizia says:

    Do you really think you should be giving advice to red killers?

  12. reality says:

    May you and him die alone. Red Killers, Patriarchy Praises are all as toxic and out of touch with reality as the rest of them. Get a therapist!

  13. cheupez says:

    @ Insanitybytes;

    You do not feel that men should be hostile to an arrangement where a woman goes off and gets her pussy poked around by a myriad of dicks and when she starts developing some wrinkles around the corners of her eyes she “becomes available” for the high school sweetheart she rejected a decade ago to marry her?

    Again, just so I am sure I am not imagining things: You honestly do not see anything wrong with this advice:

    “If you want children and she is too old to have additional biological children with you then her having children from her previous failed marriage is a very very good thing as it allows you to be a father in regards to the relationship experience of being a father and in terms of the social contribution of being a father…”

    You are sure that you do not see anything wrong with all this shit?

    • “You are sure that you do not see anything wrong with all this shit?”

      I see the compassionate words of a grown up man who values love and relationship. Many men who know their own worth and value and the importance of fathers in our culture, chose to raise children that are not their own. Even better, there are some men who perceive all children as their own and invest their time mentoring and leading them.

      • cheupez says:

        “…men who value and the importance of fathers in our culture choose to raise the children that are not their own…”

        I seem to remember a fella called Rollo who said something about “Manning Up” Let the girls go thither and get their pussy full of babies, and then bring them hither for the “Man Up” to rear.
        Cool.
        Hahahahahaaaaaaaa………

      • theasdgamer says:

        I need to prepare to help raise my own grandkids, cupcake. Why don’t you send me some bucks through Paypal?

      • theasdgamer says:

        You know, you want men to walk the walk, but you won’t, because…you’re a fakking hypocrite.

      • “You know, you want men to walk the walk, but you won’t, because…you’re a fakking hypocrite.”

        That’s such a common theme isn’t it? Just endless shame and fear of being thought a chump. It’s a sad way to live.

        I don’t judge men, I love men and find it to be quite tragic when you do not love your own selves.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Still thinking of me wanking, are you, Sugartits?

      • theasdgamer says:

        And who the fakk are you to judge “men who know their worth”? Because Pedestalization–women can judge men because men are inadequate women. Meh, you’re just pussy.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Of course, I shouldn’t give a 5h1t what you say.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Even for all you feminists, it’s all about the c0ck, isn’t it?

      • No. Having a man that only knew his own worth and value in a sexual context would feel cheap and shallow. Men are awesome sexually, but they have far more to offer. Some of you do not seem to get that.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Don’t believe what a woman says, believe what she does.

      • theasdgamer says:

        What you did was to create a couple of double entendres. What you said was to deny creating them. Smirk

      • cheupez says:

        Men who know their worth find a beautiful woman, have her go get babies with some other man that she finds more attractive than him, then proves his worth by rearing those babies for her.

  14. teddj4g says:

    ASD – “Ted, if a woman is chasing you hard, she will mold herself into your frame. The trick is to keep her chasing you hard. Make sure that you have plenty of options.”

    I get that concept, but this is something else entirely. Although in some ways they mesh as well. If keeping her chasing you prevents her from other bad behavior, then indeed you “kept” her, so to speak. My line of thinking here goes something like this:

    Every individual responds differently to specific interactions. While one woman may become angry or fearful at seeing her husband flirting with other women, another may get aroused. So for any man looking to go the long haul with a particular woman, he has to figure out what her buttons are, and then decide if he is willing to push them. If yes the game begins. If no NEXT. I would imagine such a situation would be living hell for a naturally anxious woman, but highly competative women might find it thrilling.

    But the point I was making is that IF women are indeed naturally inclined to mold themselves to a man, the way she acts while with him is in some way a reflection of his frame.(mind you I’m not blaming the man in question.) The outcome is that bad behavior can be corrected by adjusting frame, or eject. For the least amount of complication, find a woman that behaves as you desire while in your natural frame. All others will require adjustment on your part, and then its about the worth of pushing those buttons again.

    I don’t know your situation, but if hard dread works to illicit the behavior you want, and your wife is content with it, so be it. I personally have no desire for active dread, so for me that button wouldn’t be worth pushing. Highly competative women aren’t my thing. If you enjoy the dance, and it encourages your wife to behave postiviely towards you? Win/win. I don’t really enjoy it myself, and I’m fairly sure such an overt display would send my marriage into a death spiral. Of course my wife has her own set of buttons, but most of them align with actions and behaviors that come naturally to me or require minimal effort on my part. I’m sure some men would call that lazy, but I’m a fan of work smart, not hard.

    I believe part of IB’s objection to your behavior is perhaps she is also a woman that would NOT be thrilled to endure hard dread. However, what she hasn’t considered is perhaps some women need and desire it. Its hard to imagine a person enjoying something you find distasteful or revolving. I believe IB can’t fathom that some women enjoy competition anxiety, but in a world of billions there’s bound to he a few million that do.

  15. stuttie says:

    “Every individual responds differently to specific interactions. While one woman may become angry or fearful at seeing her husband flirting with other women, another may get aroused. So for any man looking to go the long haul with a particular woman, he has to figure out what her buttons are, and then decide if he is willing to push them. If yes the game begins. If no NEXT. I would imagine such a situation would be living hell for a naturally anxious woman, but highly competative women might find it thrilling.”

    AWALT

    “But the point I was making is that IF women are indeed naturally inclined to mold themselves to a man, the way she acts while with him is in some way a reflection of his frame.(mind you I’m not blaming the man in question.) The outcome is that bad behavior can be corrected by adjusting frame, or eject. For the least amount of complication, find a woman that behaves as you desire while in your natural frame. All others will require adjustment on your part, and then its about the worth of pushing those buttons again.”

    AWALT

    “I don’t know your situation, but if hard dread works to illicit the behavior you want, and your wife is content with it, so be it. I personally have no desire for active dread, so for me that button wouldn’t be worth pushing. Highly competative women aren’t my thing. If you enjoy the dance, and it encourages your wife to behave postiviely towards you? Win/win. I don’t really enjoy it myself, and I’m fairly sure such an overt display would send my marriage into a death spiral. Of course my wife has her own set of buttons, but most of them align with actions and behaviors that come naturally to me or require minimal effort on my part. I’m sure some men would call that lazy, but I’m a fan of work smart, not hard.”

    AWALT + dread game is best done covertly not overtly

    “I believe part of IB’s objection to your behavior is perhaps she is also a woman that would NOT be thrilled to endure hard dread. However, what she hasn’t considered is perhaps some women need and desire it. Its hard to imagine a person enjoying something you find distasteful or revolving. I believe IB can’t fathom that some women enjoy competition anxiety, but in a world of billions there’s bound to he a few million that do.”

    AWALT + women don’t know what they want + dread is a counter-hypergamic strategy

    • theasdgamer says:

      Stuttie, I’ve been going out clubbing solo for almost two years. Not sure how to make that covert.

      Women definitely don’t know what they want–Mrs. Gamer included. She’s a good girl ™. Yet she calls me her “Lothario”. Says I’m a “bad boy”. Mrs. Gamer has a very good time with me–I take her dancing, too. Mrs. Gamer likely fears that she can’t win competition with younger women. She deals with dread by filling her time with things to do while I’m out (like making sammiches, cool!) or doing things with a daughter.

    • teddj4g says:

      “AWALT + dread game is best done covertly not overtly”

      That is my experience as well. But I’m also willing to believe some women would enjoy competing with plates directly.

  16. Divided Line says:

    Is this post a joke?

  17. The Diplomat says:

    Obviously, all you Redkillers can’t see that elective cuckoldry is the noblest of all the Betamanly Arts and your sacred birthright.

    As your fellow man, I feel sad and ashamed that you would value yourselves, your security, and your self-esteem over the holy mission of putting a much-wiser-now princess on a golden pedestal where she belongs. Especially after she has learned her lesson from all those countless other bad, nasty men who’ve exploited and defiled every orifice of her body over and over that they were not the ones she was really looking for all along. You all need to “man up” and step into your duties as selfless provider, forgiver, and protector. Only then can she reward you with the the truest of love and her sexual best forever and ever.

    So lean in! Trust me, gents—in time, nothing is sexier to a man than the smell of two hundred kokses on his bride.

    • theasdgamer says:

      Some men get off on licking other men’s juices off of their wives’ piss flaps. Different strokes….

      Only then can she reward you with the the truest of love and her sexual best forever and ever. Lemme fix this.

      “Only then can she reward you with self-trumpeting public claims of twu wuv, loads of bitching, and withholding her sexual mediocrity forever and ever.” There ya go. Fixed.

      • The Diplomat says:

        Thanks for fixing that, Mr. Gamer. I don’t know what came over me.

        I do, however, have a pretty solid idea of what came all over my long-waited-for snowflake bride.

      • theasdgamer says:

        But was she a speshul, entitled snowflake? And did she flake when she was around a hot sun?

  18. teddj4g says:

    IB – “Many men who know their own worth and value and the importance of fathers in our culture, chose to raise children that are not their own. ”

    Sure, and in my opinion there’s nothing wrong with that, because he made the CHOICE. Of course as a man that has made that choice himself I’m likely biased. However in my case I also have biological children, so my desire for a legacy of sorts was also fulfilled. But many men dont get a choice and are duped into raising children they did not sire. Since genetic legacy is important to me, I can’t think of a more dastardly hoax to pull on a man than to cheat and con him into raising another mans child. Further, any woman that expects a man to provide for her previous children better be ready to make more.

    Some men may take issue with me for my choices, but they were mine to make. My only issue is men making that choice under false pretenses, lack of knowledge, of intentional deception. And I can’t fault any man for deciding its a bad deal and moving on. At the end of the day, each man must choose his own path. My hope is that they do so with eyes wide open. It seems most women prefer they keep their eyes shut right.

    • theasdgamer says:

      It seems most women prefer they keep their eyes shut right. Lemme fix this.

      “It seems most women prefer they keep their husbands’ eyes shut tight.” There ya go.

  19. teddj4g says:

    ASD – don’t forget their future husbands. Ya know, the one they’ll marry at 30 if she hasn’t done better yet…

  20. theasdgamer says:

    Notice Insanity’s appeal to men’s innate nobility–and the fact that she conveniently lets women off the hook for women’s innate opportunism, which opportunism relies on men’s nobility. Women act selfishly + men acting nobly results in men getting the shaft. Men need to act more selfishly for their own interests or women will keep duping them over and over and over and over and over and….

    Men and women are in competition and men need to be aware of that fact. Insanity, of course, is very much aware of that and keeps trying to pull the wool over men’s eyes.

    • The Radical One says:

      “Men and women are in competition and men need to be aware of that fact.”

      And that is precisely why society is in the shape it’s in. What kind of a civilization do we have when men turn to declare war on their OWN WOMEN? Men and women shouldn’t be competing against each other but instead should work in harmony with each other, each fulfilling their own separate roles. Keep your women in line it wouldn’t have to be this way but you are all a bunch of immature little boys who don’t know the first thing about growing up, much less being a man. YOU men let it go this far it’s up to YOU to stop it. But I figure whining on the Internet and playing video games all day while whining about your poor lot in life is much funner to you in reality.

  21. theasdgamer says:

    Insanity as Lucy: Come on, Charlie Brown. Kick the football. For the childrennn.

  22. If a man had told me when I was 20 that he would re consider marrying me at age 30, I would have written him off, because he obviously isn’t really interested. But there is a difference between writing someone off and becoming seriously angry with a person who doesn’t want to marry you. Jesse is right; nobody owes it anyone to get married. And nothing is more unattractive than a woman or a man who becomes enraged with every person who rejects them.

    Also, it is a big mistake to assume that because you have been rejected there must be something wrong with you, or you have failed in some way. That isn’t necessarily the case at all. Sometimes people click and sometimes they don’t; when they don’t it doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone did anything wrong.

  23. Although I will add: complaining constantly about all the people who ever rejected you is a huge mistake, and if you are doing it, you are drastically increasing your odds of being rejected again.

  24. VikingDream says:

    “…nobody owes it anyone to get married.”
    Truth. Not even “for the children” or “for the community” or “the future” or because she is in “love” with you. Now go out and preach to all those 35 y/o women who suddenly see marriage as the pinnacle of their personal narrative. Tell them that while they may have the wedding planned out [insert man here] they are not entitled to either a wedding or a marriage (a great many women don’t know the difference, so feel free to make that clear to them as well.)

    But if they do desire to be A WIFE, perhaps they could explain to you what that means to them; what they have to offer a man who has the status and means to warrant their attraction in the first place. I only ask because I have yet to meet a woman who has even come close to articulating this on her own accord. I suspect the grand total of contemplation in this regard is done when filling out her OkCupid profile. Though these days OKCupid asks too much, so its off to Tinder. So ask them how trolling Tinder is demonstrating values, instilling habits, or developing life-skills that signal to a marriage-minded man that they are indeed looking to become a WIFE.

    “Also, it is a big mistake to assume that because you have been rejected there must be something wrong with you, or you have failed in some way.”

    Not true. There is likely something “wrong” with you. There is likely something “wrong” with everyone. Rejection from a stranger in passing is one thing, but rejection from someone who you are already involved with is entirely different. Rejection is useful. Failure should be part of the progression toward success. Ignoring the valuable information embedded within rejection hinders this progression.

    What you are saying draws closely with “just be yourself” and “beauty is on the inside”, which of course are both ill-advised lies of the same nature as those that Rollo calls to the mat. It is placing Feelings above Truths; a central tenant upholding the primacy of female imperatives and one that the red pill seeks to destroy. For the sake of men and women.

    Unfortunately for women, they follow your lead and continue to assume there is something wrong with all of the men they encounter. And unfortunately, most men are taught from an early age to believe that this is true.

    Reigning in introspection and motivation for self-improvement stemming from rejection is part of the problem. It may not feel good, but the pain of transformation and improvement is far less than the pain of perpetual failure or pain from the soul-crushing compromises and subjugation that spawns from this kind of coddled and lagging self-awareness.

    Attraction preferences and triggers will vary and indeed one cannot expect to have universal appeal and should thus develop and maintain his/her own sources of worth that are intrinsic. But it is ignorant to dismiss rejection entirely for either its utility in ones progress through life or its instructional value in terms of understanding one’s relative place within the community.

    Female entitlement is out of control and your comment illustrates part of why this is the case. One can have healthy self-worth and a healthy and realistic assessment of their value to others, even if that value is lacking or they are not “good” enough. People do this all the time in all kinds of human relationships. The pursuit of a romantic relationship is no different.

    But because we cherish female feelings above nearly everything else, women are denied their own truths in this regard; they are taught that other peoples negative opinions or experiences of them do not mean anything; they are instructed that their specialness is innate and requires nothing of them to maintain or invest, and that if others cannot see this specialness, this greatness, or beauty, that person must be flawed, and thereby follows that if their wants in life – marriage or otherwise, are not met, then it is again these extrinsic factors holding them back, oppressing them, preventing them from realizing their full potential.

    And further down they go into the infallible idea that they deserve things from others because of this specialness. And eventually full victimhood takes hold, where only anger and resentment reside. Once this metastasizes, it is often too late to inspire in them the kind of change necessary to deal with the reality of their situation.

    This is becoming increasingly common in women who have been living this lie through their sexual primes with only a trail of broken relationships and notches in the bedpost to show for it. You see, as a grown man who created my own life from the hardscrabble of failure, rejection, and adaptation, I do not see such self-indulgence, self-absorption, lagging future time-orientation, and frivolous sexual dalliances as bringing anything of value to my table. She may have rationalized those 20 years “dating” as what made her who she is today, but just as “nobody owes it to anyone to get married”, I do not owe her any affirmation of such rationalizations.

    Instead of understanding their true value to a man, it is the man – in fact the rest of the world that must bend to accommodate her rigid sense of entitlement and inflated sense of worth. So yeah, a woman who casts aside willing men in the pursuit of things that ultimately bring no value to a future man should not expect that future man to see this path as either wise nor trustworthy. Especially if that future man was one of the men cast aside to facilitate her sacred journey. The lost irony of course being that her sacred journey just happened to land her right back at him. Which should say something about the value of that journey too. But that’s for a different day.

    • You have accused me of saying many things that I never said. I never said “just be yourself”, nor did I ever say “beauty is on the inside”, nor did I mean to say either of those things. As for women “following my lead and continuing to assume that there is something wrong with all the men they encounter”, that is the exact opposite of what I said.

    • Sounds like a male version of hypergamy to me.

      • The precise same thing you despise in women. Men must sow their wild oats, but heaven forbid women don’t sit back and wait patiently pining away while you try to find yourselves.

      • teddj4g says:

        How so? How does the post linked above demonstrate male hypergamy? (Or something similar) I’m genuinely curious.

      • The above post indicates that Tomassi sees the value in men playing the field, in engaging in the precise same sexual strategy that his lost love once displayed. What is being so criticized, so frowned upon, is simply male behavior in female form.

        So while the ship sails about, sampling all the world’s wares, Tomassi believes women should just remain behind chaste, patient, saving themselves. It’s quite the double standard, an attempt to have one’s cake and eat it too.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Hey Cupcakes, howyadoin?

      • theasdgamer says:

        Extra-credit question: Why might men and women get different outcomes from following a multi-partner sexual strategy? Lessee if IB can woman up here and come to an exciting, thrilling, informational climax. The Big I-O. Infogasm.

  25. cheupez says:

    OK, the let the men play and the women play too. Hell let the women also be the men and run the goddamn army too.

  26. teddj4g says:

    IB – so am I correct in believing your primary issue with TRM is that it promotes the idea of spinning plates, specifically while single? (IMO married plate spinning is an entirely different discussion)

    • No, my primary problem with TRM is the fruits it seems to produce, hatred, bitterness, and outright hostility towards women. This so called anger phase seems to go on for 20-30-40 years in some people and those things are encouraged, validated, supported. Hey, you if want to stuff women in wood chipers, go for it, we understand. Dig a grave and make her watch, hey it’s just dread game. Women aren’t quite human anyway so who cares, right?

      • teddj4g says:

        IB – OK so its the anger and bitterness, I can understand how it could he worrisome, all I can add is that I was once bitter, angry, and a loser. First wife decided to “find herself” after 12 years of marriage. Pulled the “started too young having kids” schtick (which wasn’t my fault. She had a child when we met. No regrets there tho because that little girl is wholley my child in all ways but genetic, and my ex at least bore me a son)

        Anyway my point is I found Rollo after the divorce and early on at the beginning of my second marriage, and I was angry as hell! That lasted a bit and then I was depressed as hell. Occasionally anger would come back for a bit as I learned jurist how deep the rabbit hole went. Then? I checked out for awhile. Stopped reading blogs and just lived. At some point I realized the anger was gone. Sure I still struggle with bitterness some days, bit that is to be expected when you spend a large chunk of your life looking for something that doesn’t exist.

        I’ve seen you claim TRM promotes the idea that love isn’t real. I disagree. TRM says Disney love isn’t real. But I love my wife today, and it seems as real as any emotion can be. Am I delusional? Maybe but I don’t think so in this case. I’ve simply accepted that what I thought was Love is a fantasy. If I want real love, I had to change my views on what love actually is to not only recognize it when of happens, but to foster it properly if I want it to last.

        Bit let me ask: do you under stand the source of the anger and hate? Can you agree that women are just as Mich to blame as men for this mess? Do you understand that some people never recover from mental trauma and anguish? You may he right that some men never get past those negative stages. But they can only help themselves. No one can talk them past anger.

        So what would you have Rollo do differently?

      • Well, first I should say that I really appreciate those men and husbands such as yourself, that have walked through it all and come out on the other side. I do recognize that some good can come out of there and that the whole manosphere fills a niche that is hard to find in other places.

        I do understand the source of the anger and hate, I do know women well, but to remain in that state of hatred and anger is precisely the same kind of victim worship that feminism has plunged into and it is unhealthy for everyone.

        What could Tomassi do differently? The same things I have tried to do within feminism, to call people out on their hatred, to tell them to stop making the personal political, to drop the stereotypes and labeling, not all men are like that, not all men must be controlled and regulated, to stop portraying life as if it were just one big gender war. It makes no difference whether you are trying to smash the patriarchy or trying to crush alleged hypergamy, it is all the same nonsense.

    • theasdgamer says:

      As my grandad used to say, “Pussy is just pussy.”

    • theasdgamer says:

      Despite her Christian claim, IB has a problem with the Song of Solomon, which exemplifies Preselection and Dread as normal. In the SoS, the woman is constantly chasing the man…because of Dread. Ancient wisdom, but IB doesn’t care for the Bible in its totality. She prefers to cherry pick the parts of the Bible that appeal to her. The SoS was around long before TRM. I have blogged about some elements of Game in the Song of Solomon.

      Dread is the other face of love. “You hold the key to love and fear…all in your trembling hand.”

      Women take great notice of men’s anger, I think…more so than other men do. It’s probably biological. I guarantee you that I don’t hate women, am not bitter, and am not hostile to women.

  27. teddj4g says:

    IB – thanks for the replies.

    I can see your POV on this. The thing is: IMO Rollo is not attempting to tell men to DO anything in particular. His goal is to spread information and let men use it as they will. Of course some men may use it for good (to keep a marriage fulfilling and intact) or for evil (pump and dumps). And of course, good and evil are very relative terms. I come from a religious background but do not actively practice. However I follow the general guidelines and morality taught to me in my youth still today. What I consider evil you may consider good. Its complicated, and there’s no way to address it with thout delving into morality, which Rollo intentionally avoids. I see it as a necessity, but I get the impression you’d prefer Rollo takes moral stance. That’s his call of course, but I can easily see why morality would muddy his message.

    As to men staying angry: nothing can be done to help those that won’t help themselves. And maybe some people simply like being angry! Awful way to live IMO, but I spent 8+ years in a sexless marriage, and that was an awful way to live as well.

    I appreciate your candor and tone. Always glad to have civil conversation in a realm of short fuses and tempers.

  28. theasdgamer says:

    Well, first I should say that I really appreciate those men and husbands such as yourself, that have walked through it all and come out on the other side.

    My sniffer smells beta bait.

    Let’s run “victim worship” through the Hamsterlator. It is a reframe of the Red Pill; it means “Men are thinking too much about their own needs and realize that they have been sold a bunch of lies and we have to stop that thinking at all costs because it might undermine the feminist goal of the pedestalization of women!”

    Of course, “victim worship,” where the alleged victims are women, within feminism is simply pedestalization as far as feminists are concerned and is a desirable goal from the feminist perspective. It’s ludicrous to talk about “victim worship” when the victim is a man. There is no pedestalization of men in the culture. There is no significant movement for men like feminism is for women. IB is being very slick and disingenuous. IDGAS about any polite tone. Just because her 5h1t sandwich has been puffed with perfume doesn’t change it from being a 5h1t sandwich.

    trying to crush alleged hypergamy

    Lol, written by an alleged woman on an alleged blog on the alleged internet.

    you are trying to smash the patriarchy

    Don’t you mean “you are trying to smash the alleged patriarchy”? Heh.

  29. teddj4g says:

    ASD – perhaps it was beta bait. Lord knows I fit the description for many years. Maybe she was buttering me up, or maybe it was a genuine compliment from her POV. At any rate, we’ve had a few go rounds now with no name calling and no swearing. That I do appreciate, and I will continue to respond in like manner.

    At any rate, her motivation for the compliment (as I took it) is irrelevant. My point in the short history lesson was simply to demonstrate that some men do get past the anger. The problem is: most of us past it aren’t all that active in the comments. To be sure I read Rollo on the regular. I simply don’t have much to add in the comments that isn’t covered by the regulars. The comments section is a self-selecting audience and not necessarily a representation of the “average” Red Pill man. Its easy to see how a quick look could lead someone to conclude the ‘sphere is full of “bitter and angry” men. The key is: many of these so called angry men are newly unplugged, and a few are perhaps angry long term. And of course some folks just enjoy ruffling feathers.

    Every man gets to choose how to live his life. Anger is one of many ways to go.

    • theasdgamer says:

      I agree about the anger of men who have been hammered by the system and just found out that it was because they were sold a passel of lies.

      However, men have to move past anger. Anger is destructive to oneself long-term. Women often mistake being testy with being angry.

      • teddj4g says:

        Some women also don’t understand that many men USE anger to grow. I am one of them, and as much as I know myself, my drives, and my desires, I couldn’t find a way to explain the process to a woman to make her feel OK with it. Men’s anger is scary, but for me it is a creative force. Anger motivated me to improve. Without anger I’d still be a blue pill simp.

        Some people just can’t or won’t get past it. I understand, because I still have the occasional shitty day that knocks me on my ass and it swells up. Thing is, now I recognize it, acknowledge it, and move on. Wish the process was faster, but I’m a work in progress.

        Now being testy? Agree and Amplify on steroids. Can be fun but takes more effort than I invest online these days. I save most of that for chatting face to face, where I get the most bang for my buck.

      • theasdgamer says:

        Kudos on your personal development, Ted! Study the Song of Solomon for what it will teach you about managing your woman.

  30. Spicey says:

    Cute when red pillers argue amongst each other! Ya ll need therapists, mental help and to understand women are humans, have variety, are power mongers, deserve inherent respect, deserve independence, deserve to not be abused (no dread gamed, no rape, no hurting her). Till you realise that they’ll keep rejecting you. That last four red pillers I knew, I dumped, I gave them fucking nothing. Ya all are gonna lose!

  31. Hannahd says:

    May I actually point out that none of these manosphere men actually seem happy or content with their lives. It’s as though they are constantly chasing something. None of them seem to have families of their own. They are too proud to admit that they would be happier if they did have a family of their own. Whilst I think the whole manosphere movement is toxic I can see things from their perspective. Women are very critical of things like social awkwardness or lack of outward confidence in men, even when these things do not have an impact on a man’s ability to step up and be a good husband/father/provider. I think both men and women in our society more often than not completely lack humility, which is sad.

    • theasdgamer says:

      I’d say that you are sexually repressed. Your man doesn’t do it for you. Hence you keep looking outside the home and have to go to the internet to get attention from men. And you don’t love your kids or you’d spend your time on them instead of on manospherian sites.

      Good you have so much humility that you set yourself up as judge. Well done. [/sarcasm]

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