The Shortcomings of the Red Pill

What is the “Red Pill” exactly? LeeLee in Babylon put up a post recently titled “Red Pill Doubts” where she expresses her growing doubts about the validity and healthiness of the Red Pill message that earlier she was highly attached to. As she wrote in her article:

“I can’t refuse to see how many of the women around me actually are, how they in no way approximate the dire descriptions of female nature found on Red Pill twitter or the Manosphere. I can’t refuse to see how they sacrifice their bodies, dreams, ambitions for their families. I can’t not see how devoted so many of the women around me are to serving, loving and respecting their husbands, often at great personal cost.”

I think what LeeLee is confused by is the fact that the conservative Christian women that she is choosing to befriend do not fit with the anti-female stereotypes promoted by the Red Pill that ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT due to their hypergamous solipsistic female nature. The Red Pill message does not allow for truly good women to exist because supposedly women are naturally by biological necessity selfish and manipulative and only out for themselves.

I think what LeeLee needs to understand is that the Red Pill is not Christian, even Christian Manosphere types like Dalrock are not Christian in their presentation style or focus. In addition the Red Pill is isolated from high functioning Christian communities and they themselves do not “measure up” to what a conservative Christian woman would seek and want from a man. So in the Red Pill world it may well be that “All Women Are Like That” (AWALT) or at least they as men are not able to differentiate the good women from the bad women so to be on the safe side they defensively view all women as being potentially dangerous just to keep their guard up. Even worse if a Red Pill man did meet with a truly good woman that woman would reject him because he didn’t measure up to her standards so the woman who truly is such a superior woman isn’t available to him anyways.

The Red Pill is what I would call Stage 2 of the secular development of patriarchy; Stage 1 being “true gender equality” obsessed Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs). Stage 3 secular development of patriarchy would be based on men seeing themselves as having objective duties and obligations towards women. Stage 4 secular development of patriarchy would be based on men seeing themselves as primarily serving and obeying God and their God defined gender roles as men. The Red Pill is “sort of” patriarchal or “a little bit” patriarchal; it has a long way to go however before it reaches high functioning high contribution patriarchy.

LeeLee in her post wrote:

“Okay, what I’m thinking right now is this – the Red Pill is like one of those 12 inch wooden rulers they give you in first grade. It’s true and it’s right and it’s good – but it’s not the only way of measuring something. If you try to measure the width of a ball with it, you won’t understand the ball very accurately. If you try to measure your bodyweight with it, you’ll be left in the dark. It’s good, but you need to be able to measure in other ways.”

The Red Pill understands its own world, the world of secular liberal feminism, very well from its own rather warped male centric mindset. The Red Pill is “truth” for an amoral man trying to have sex with or form relationships with amoral women. In that context the Red Pill is very utilitarian and useful and explains a lot of otherwise mysterious behavior from women. The Red Pill however is not very useful in trying to put together a moral purpose for your life or in learning how to treat women well. The Red Pill also assumes that one is living in a world without God, without externally imposed obligations to follow. It is just assumed that the man is only out for himself and that the woman is only out for herself. The Red Pill pretends that this kind of Godless existence is true for everyone by necessity due to biological programming or evolutionary psychology and that therefore AWALT; in this way missing the reality of the good Christian women sacrificing for their husbands and their families that LeeLee describes interacting with first hand.

The Red Pill is morally corrupted, morally corrupted in that it presupposes a kind of amoral selfishly oriented starting point. In this way even the truths that the Red Pill teaches are truths presented in a morally dysfunctional way; it is knowledge of human psychology and female nature to use as you see fit, for good or for bad. Knowledge without a moral grounding or wider moral context. Utilitarian knowledge separated from any kind of Godly purpose.

LeeLee observes in her post:

“I went to a Christian mini-conference for stay at home moms this morning. How do I use the Red Pill to measure my experience sitting through workshop after workshop on putting yourself second, caring for your husband’s needs more, living life as a servant, being thankful and faithful… a group of women got together to put on this event, put the program together for no pay, just to encourage women to be better wives and mothers… tell me, how does that in any way match up with what you read about female nature on the manosphere?

It doesn’t.”

The Red Pill only understands so called “female nature” that is secular and feminist corrupted; of course “Red Pill truths” will miss the Christian mini-conference LeeLee describes because the women involved were not secular or feminist minded. The Red Pill does not understand objective moral duty or obedience to God and so cannot understand or accept that conservative Christian women really are GOOD, really are Godly, really are idealistically oriented in service to others.

Red Pill blogs may pretend that they teach universal truths applicable to all regarding gender relations but the thing is that they don’t have an overriding moral framework to use whatever “truths” they claim for a moral purpose. Another thing is that the Red Pill blogs are in general quite hostile to women assuming that many of women’s bad behaviors are “natural” rather than simply dysfunctional and negatively culturally influenced. Also strangely men are presented as being without sin and without fault, it is just assumed that the man is OK and has it all together and reacts to women reasonably and sensibly and is just doing as he’s been told and that it is the WOMAN that is MESSING EVERYTHING UP!

On this issue of “female nature.” To me “female nature” is something beautiful and good. It is femininity, what I long for most in my life, what I most want to be around and what gives me the most pleasure in life; most fundamentally it is what I am meant to serve as a man. Female nature is what God puts into women to make women women so of course female nature is something good. Does this mean that women are always good and morally superior or something? No, of course not. Women can choose to be bad and women can be influenced or pressured or taught to be bad, just like men can. The thing is that women’s shortcomings or faults are different from so called “female nature.” Female nature itself is something that is good; it is what God put into women for a Godly purpose so that women could fulfill their role and purpose in life as women.

LeeLee in Babylon ended her post with this:

“I guess where I’m at right now is this – I want to love my husband well and raise my kids to lift burdens instead of creating them, and I want to create and offer up more than I consume and I want to do this in intimacy with the people around me.

I don’t want to be a part of something that’s about getting yours and screw the wreckage left in your wake. I get why that’s an attractive message, especially for hurt men who were persuaded to live the unhealthy opposite to that rule for a long time, but I don’t have a place in that, because that’s not what I believe is healthy or wise living.

So that’s where I’m at. I invite you to push back against this, against me. How do I keep one foot in each world? How can I see everything, how can I see clearly and not just one angle, just one measurement, but the whole?”

What LeeLee is expressing here is healthy and good. To put it bluntly she is better than the Red Pill, the Christian community that she is a part of is better than the Red Pill, its vision of life and proper family relationships is more healthy and more moral and indeed more true than what the Red Pill has to offer.

LeeLee can keep one foot in each world; one foot in the Red Pill world and one foot in the Christian world; as long as she understands that the Red Pill is a subculture applicable to the secular feminist world from a Godless vantage point, a world that many many people live in, while the Christian world has truths more applicable to all. The conservative Christian world is more general in its moral applications; the Red Pill world applies to a more limited more dysfunctional sphere.

Regarding this part, “How can I see everything, how can I see clearly and not just one angle, just one measurement, but the whole?” The Red Pill world cannot see the reality of a God centered Christian way of life, the Christian world on the other hand does recognize sin, does understand that one is lost without God to guide you, does understand that there are those without Christ in their lives. In this way I imagine that the conservative Christian world can understand why something like the Red Pill exists in secular culture. So the Red Pill cannot see the reality of the Christian way of life but the conservative Christian can understand how something like the Red Pill can exist in secular culture. In this way Christianity sees the whole while the Red Pill sees only its own limited biased and ultimately unhealthy secular feminist subculture. So the way to see the whole and not just one angle or one measurement is to understand everything from the Christian point of view; the Christian point of view being able to understand itself and being able to understand the Red Pill frame of mind both.

About Jesse Powell TFA

Anti-Feminist, MRA, Pro-Traditional Women's Rights Traditional Family Activist (TFA)
This entry was posted in Gender Politics Analysis and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

16 Responses to The Shortcomings of the Red Pill

  1. Elizabethan says:

    Red Pill is purely men driven to desperation and insanity by lack of sex because their pee pee’s are their favorite body part, and giving up control and being a good person is TOO HARD.
    It’s not even a unique mental illness, in mental wellness camps well call it Narcissistic Tendency’s and Immaturity WHAT I WANT< WHAT I NEED< DIEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO ME< GET MY DICK WET OR I"LL BEAT/EMOTIONALLY ABUSE YOU, GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
    IF the red pill bullshit actually worked none of those men would be married, and they'd all be sleeping around and successfully getting their dicks wet, instead of talking about it in abstract to the people who aren't married and giving their followers awful advice as they slowly go towards their next divorce.
    Red Pill itself has only 4 legitimate thoughts, the rest of it's increasingly deranged thoughts get further and further away from reality and what actual woman actually want.
    When it comes down to it, it's desperation and these men need therapists, not delusional assumptions about what woman actually want, which they somehow know, despite never actually speaking to woman.

    • FamilyFirst says:

      @Elizabethan Are you talking about men are you talking about yourself? You keep talking about men’s “pee pees”. Is that what you are craving?

      You want men to give up control? What does that mean? Let you be in control? So you don’t want equality, you want domination and when men don’t want to let you run their lives, you get angry? You are clearly the narcissist here. And why do you keep repeating “getting a dick wet”? Is that a fantasy? Do you want to get your cunt wet?

      Fewer men are marrying so obviously the red pill is working. If you are so happy, why are you talking on this blog in the abstract and bashing men so much? Why aren’t you focusing on your wonderful relationship with your husband? Because you know you will never get a husband because of your obvious mental disorder?

      When it comes down to it, you are desperate and need therapy. You don’t know how to behave in a relationship. You are too angry and hateful and that will never attract a decent human being. No one cares about what an angry and hateful person like you wants. I doubt you have any male or female friends.

      You’re probably one of so many women who were pumped and dumped by so many men all while turning away the decent men who would have given you a good life because you thought you could do better. Now you are older and fewer people want you. You could probably still obtain a good man if you took care of yourself and became a sweeter person but you have delusions of grandeur and you feel that sweetness is beneath you. So you go on bitter tirades about how men are to blame for everything to cover up the fact that you blew your chances for happiness in the past and you are too disturbed and arrogant to make the changes needed to improve your life in the present.

      How many people have you told to give it to you, waaaaaahhh, and then emotionally and physically abused when they couldn’t or wouldn’t give it to you because let’s face it, when you aren’t happy yourself, no one can really make you happy, right?

      • Elizabethan says:

        I love how you simply copy and paste my insults back to me, congrats on you ur c+pee ing. I believe in red pill now /sarcasm
        Why are you trying to convince me your cult works? It doesn’t, end of, 50% of those idiots will be divorced ad the rest are abusers/rapists?. Good for you!
        I love seeing you try that red pill bullshit on me, trying to neg me into believing your cult and believing your methods. Create dread in me by saying I need some sort of man. Seriously your behavior is see through and I am embarrassed for you?
        Its embarrassing, I expected better, and why are you trying to convince me red pill is about anything but getting laid?
        Really dude, its cute how you think your begging and your dreading and your trying to sizs me up and make me feel bad could work at all! Darling, red pill doesn’t work, and not on me in particular! I have done that rodeo.
        And babe, men are not to blame, red pill theory on the other hand, is see through and abusive and to blame, for many abusers and rapists.
        And dude, there is no sweetness in me, and I am not sure marriage is a goal, for me, not all woman want marriage either. Heck, sometimes I want to marry a woman! Where does that fit?
        Why are all the red pill leaders married? If red pill was sufficient? Why are they married? Rational Male and all those married red pillers, why do they exist? Tell me why?
        Really really sorry your negging didn’t work, oh well!

      • FamilyFirst says:

        I don’t copy and paste your insults back at you. I simply point out the stupidity of your insults. Why do you have to post insults anyway? Are you incapable of engaging in an intellectual discussion?

        I don’t have a cult and I couldn’t care less what you believe. But I don’t care for internet bullies and trolls who have to insult anyone who disagrees with them. You sound like someone who wishes a man would marry you so you could divorce him and take whatever money he has. It hasn’t happened and you are bitter. You sound like a rapist/abuser yourself because you are so full of anger.

        You should be embarrassed about what you post. Yes, you expected better in life but you obviously didn’t do anything to earn a better life. Going around insulting everyone isn’t going to get you the alpha man you want. No one is begging and dreading here except for you. You built a ridiculous fantasy life to get through your pain? How about developing a sweeter personality?

        There you go again, talking about getting laid. Not getting any, darling? Yes, you have done the rodeo and now you are too old and used up for any decent man or woman to want you.

        Why do you keep asking if the red pill guys are married? Why do you care? Do you want them to marry you? No man or woman will marry you because you are so hostile and delusional.

        Really sorry your anger is eating you up, oh well!

  2. The Land of Reality says:


    Have you wondered why so many men don’t want to marry?

    Where do people learn about marriage? Usually from their parents, other relatives and the people in the communities around them.

    Women are much more likely than men to initiate divorces. So if men grow up and they see their mothers divorcing their fathers (assuming they even married the fathers of their children or know who the fathers are) and they see their other relatives and neighbors getting divorced, what impact do you think that will have on men?

    If you are angry that men don’t want to marry, don’t blame the men. Blame the mothers who raised them and the legal system who all make a mockery out of husbands and fathers. Children learn to love from happy, healthy marriages. When children see mothers shaming and even abusing their fathers, divorcing them and then taking all of the fathers’ money, property in addition to the children, how are the children going to view marriage when they grow up?

    On top of that, you have the media that denigrates men in general especially husbands and fathers. You have gender studies and other faux liberal arts programs that denigrate men in the schools. Husbands and fathers are idiots who should just follow whatever the mothers say and if they don’t, they are sexist bastards who deserve to be stripped of their dignity. When men succeed it’s because of unfair privileges and misogyny while when women succeed it’s progress and a victory over their male enemies. When men are victimized, it’s their own fault because they don’t know how to take advantage of the privilege a “patriarchal” society bestows upon them.

    So men grow up thinking that they are incompetent, sexist idiots who should just kowtow to all women and to be prepared to surrender whatever rights they have in the name of equality and revenge justice. They don’t see happy loving marriages where mothers and fathers love and take care of each other. They are thrown into child care where their nannies and child care workers are constantly switched around. How are they supposed to honor commitment when they didn’t see commitment growing up? How are they supposed to have respect for others when no one respects them?

    Then, women get angry and frustrated. Where are all the good men? The answer is, they weren’t raised by good women so how could they become good men? Feminism told women to put themselves first before marriage and family. Dump the guy when you get bored and take him for whatever he has. Dump the kids in child care so you can concentrate on your career and a social life that involves dating different men. Bad mouth men to the kids and tell them that all men are basically sh*t. And then they ask where are the good men.

    Imagine a social and legal system that tells men to put themselves first before marriage and children. Tell the men not to spend money on the women and children and just focus on their careers. Divorce the mothers of their children and take the kids away plus any assets the mothers have. Tell the kids that women are basically sh*t. Dump the kids in child care so the men can focus on their careers and date as many women they want. Would you ask where are all the good women? No, you would blame the system for the obvious misogyny that ruined women and families.

    At least MRAs tell men not to marry and not to have kids. They don’t tell men to ruin women and use the kids as weapons against women in the way feminism does. You want marriage to a good man? Respect him, honor him and treasure him. Treat him the way you want to be treated. Fight against misandrist laws that treat husbands and fathers like crap.

    • FamilyLast says:

      I think the red pill, rad trad, trad cats and other failed ideas from men who want to get laid but can’t for whatever reason miss a lot of points, such as these: some women don’t want to get married, some women are lesbians, some women are asexual, some women prefer weak mentally ill men, some women prefer women, some women are the hit and quit it type, no matter what names you call her, and many many many other things, that never, ever, factor into these failed cults about getting laid.
      Feminism is and was never about marriage, besides men doing their part to hold it together, and some variants of feminism are very separatist and anti straight marriage, and its easier enough to avoid those parts of the internet and go upon your traditional life
      and to be honest, I don’t care a bunch of men are coming out to themselves as the non marrying type and I hope to God more men make that choice and never marry some poor sod they call their “Ball and Chain”, its on men to not marry into shiXty situations, don’t blame the women, you married her! Be an eternal bachelor, and don’t be cruel to women who choose the same for themselves or marry and give a care about your wife, it’s that simple.
      I don’t care if men choose to marry or not, all I care is that they aren’t hurting people!

      • FamilyAlwaysFirst says:

        I think you do care that a lot more men are choosing not to marry. Because that means they won’t marry you and you won’t have access to their resources.

        Feminism was basically a lie that tried to convince women that they could have it all but no one can have it all. Life is about sacrifices and everyone has to decide what they want and what sacrifices they need to make to attain what they want.

        Having a successful career is the sacrifice of a home life and being a great parent is the sacrifice of a great career. You can’t work 60 to 80 hours a week, earn $150,000 and spend quality time with your spouse and kids.

        What makes it all worse is that so many are now working 60 to 80 hours a week and they aren’t even earning $150,000 a year and yet they are still missing out on raising their kids.

        Feminism hurt people and you know it. Men and women used to complement each other and take care of each other in their own ways. But feminism came along and told women that they could do it all by themselves without a man. And now women are just wage slaves struggling to maintain their families, assuming they even have families.

        Women were happier in the 1950s than they are now. So now feminism tries to convince women that feminism is victorious when everyone knows, it is just a farce that needs to be put to rest.

  3. Crystal says:

    The whole Red Pill movement is a shortcoming! While I agree that men deserve certain rights as much as women do – no more no less – the RP is not the way to get them!

    • FamilyFirst says:

      You agree that men deserve “certain rights” as much as women do? I believe that all humans deserve equal rights. If the RP is not the way to get them, then what is? Just be silent victims as they have been since time began and expect some type of mercy that may never come?

      • Crystal says:

        “You agree that men deserve “certain rights” as much as women do?”

        Yes, the right to do good things and cause no harm to others and enjoy themselves. No one has the “right” to kill, rape, or otherwise unethically injure people regardless of sex, hence my careful wording when I say “certain” rights. My original intent was, of course, totally egalitarian; in other words that they deserve equal say in a variety of areas, such as shared custody rights. I’m honestly not sure why you think I want to suppress men at all; I have discussed my concern that I might be suppressing men with guys that like me and they have assured me that I desire nothing more than my own personal dignity and respect. Why do you ask after my wording on this one BTW? And also, if I may ask, I have stated more than once that I believe in egalitarianism; why do you seem to question my statements?

        “I believe that all humans deserve equal rights.”

        I think that was the intent behind my words.

        “If the RP is not the way to get them, then what is?”

        Egalitarianism, no more no less.

        “Just be silent victims as they have been since time began and expect some type of mercy that may never come?”

        Please tell me where you got your information from on this subject – sincere question BTW.

        As you like to say, haven’t *humans* all been victims of each other’s cruelty at one time or another. Also, according to the Bible men were the leaders in many cultures around the world so I’m not sure how on earth you came to the conclusion that men were being suppressed, just read the book of Esther where Vashti got punished for refusing to appear at her husband’s command.

      • FamilyFirst says:

        Well, your last comment does sound more egalitarian but in the previous comment you stated the Red Pill is not the way to get equal rights without offering an alternative. If you believe a certain group doesn’t have equal rights and they are going about obtaining those rights in the wrong way, what is the correct way? Also, when you say they deserve “certain rights” it does imply that they don’t deserve equal rights – only a selected few when compared with women. Rape, murder, assault have never been rights so I don’t know why you would state that men don’t have those rights when no one ever had them. As you stated in your last comment, all humans have been cruel and all humans have been victims.

  4. Pingback: The Red Pill urging men to Build Power | Secular Patriarchy

  5. FamilyLast says:

    A. Grow a personality
    B. Don’t take yourself 2 seriously
    C. Don’t self pity or soul suck or be an emotional vampire
    D. Learn how to f-ing look after yourself, and do it even when your married, don’t be a weakling when it comes to “Emotional Labour”, if you’re an adult, and not seriously disabled, look after yourself and your house
    There is all the advice you need to get laid, take it from an actual women, who’s spent her life figuring out what “Charm” is and how to be charismatic

    • FamilyAlwaysFirst says:

      Very good. Now, it’s not enough to just say it – you actually have to practice it.

      Also, try to find someone who is stable, caring and loyal because “getting laid” tends to grow pretty lame after a while. You can’t be a rag doll that’s passed around all of your life – rag dolls get discolored and moldy after a while and no one wants them. That’s why you should have a family of your own, dear.

  6. FamilyLast says:

    my gosh, half the battle to understanding women are different to you guys, some woman wanna marry at 19 to a 27 year old and pop out kids and still have a side jobs, others, not so much. Hlaf my battle is myself

    • FamilyAlwaysFirst says:

      Why should men bother to understand women who don’t want to marry? It’s not like they are that complicated. If these women want to be pumped and dumped all of their lives, fine, but how long will that last?

      Half of your battle is yourself, you say? Well, change that. Find a good man who treats you well, treat him well and then there won’t be any battles with yourself.

      The single life is fine when you are young and energetic but it isn’t that great when you are old and tired.

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