The Right Way and the Wrong Way for a Woman to Plan her Large Quiverfull Family

Jojo at Simple Southern Spirit is 19 years old, lives in North Carolina, wants to have lots of children, and intends to take care of her children full-time with her husband making the money for the family. This is a classic “quiverfull” life plan for women that is highly respected and promoted among the Christian Patriarchy subculture. I found on the internet another woman similar to Jojo in certain ways but also very different. Going by the name Pancake5630 (Pancake) she is 20 years old (apparently), also lives in North Carolina, says about herself “I would like to have a large family and have great respect for quiverfull families”, and, and, that is where the similarities with Jojo end.

The title of Pancake’s question on a Christian forum is “How to afford a quiverfull family (or any at all).” Notice the pleading disheartening qualifier “or any at all” at the end. Right at the beginning of her post Pancake says:

“My fiance and I would like to have a large family and have great respect for quiverfull families, but we do not think we can afford even one child. I believe that children are blessings and I have always had a natural gift for working with kids. I currently nanny for two school aged children while attending college full time.”

OK, her and her fiancé want a large family, good. They have great respect for quiverfull families, good. She has always had a natural gift for working with kids, good. Then right at the end she slaps us with the information that she is working as a nanny while ATTENDING COLLEGE FULL TIME! Things were going so well but then BAM! She turns feminist on us.

This question Pancake is asking is in a website called Christian Forums so presumably Pancake is Christian seeking guidance from other Christians in a Christian setting. The complete hierarchy tree where Pancake is asking her question is Christian Forums – Ministry – Life Stages – Parenting – Christian Families – Quiverfull – and then her specific question “How to afford a quiverfull family (or any at all).”

Getting into the nitty gritty of her situation Pancake relates:

“I will recieve my Associate in Arts this semester and plan on transfering to WCU next fall to persue a Bachelor’s Degree in Elementary Education. My fiance works as a cook and is only able to bring home $100 a week because his job has a policy where you cannot work 30hrs or more. He has been trying to find a new job for many months, but where we live the only jobs available are part-time minimum wage jobs or require a degree. He was attending school with me for awhile, but he had to quit so that he could take on more hours.”

Now we are getting some real information here about Pancake’s situation. Pancake is going to school full-time doing a bit of nannying on the side while her fiancé is not going to school at all working about 10 hours a week at his job as a cook spending most of his productive time looking for another job. Pancake mentioned she is getting $50 a week from her nannying so her and her fiancé combined are pulling in $150 a week according to the sources of income Pancake has mentioned. Pancake’s fiancé dropped out of college to “work more hours” but obviously that didn’t pan out because he is working very few hours at the moment. It was Pancake’s schooling however that appears to be the priority here; she has almost got her Associates Degree already and already has plans for how she is going to attain her goal without delay of getting her Bachelor’s Degree in Elementary Education. What are the plan’s of Pancake’s fiancé here? No mention of him returning to college. Presumably he is looking for a full-time job now which would certainly help financially but how is he going to progress from his current job as a cook?

At the end of Pancake’s question she lays out her situation asking for guidance saying:

“We [she and her fiancé] can’t seem to find a way to expand our income or cut down our expenses any more than we have. I am attending school, but this will take years and there is no promise that I will find a job afterwards. I do not want to run our family into debt by taking out loans, however that may be the only way to finish school. I have to decide whether it is better to keep applying to minimum wage jobs and pray for acceptance and full time or to take out loans, finish school, but then owe my entire paycheck for about 10 years. Assuming I am able to get a job. A friend of mine recently graduated with a teaching degree. She has been searching for almost a year for a job in her field, but all of the schools require 2 years experience. Even though I feel like teaching is my calling I have considered changing fields if there is something more practicle. I have a very bad problem with math, however, that limits me. If someone could provide guidance I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.”

I want to point out here how masculine the above paragraph is. There are a few cues signaling femininity such as teaching usually being a feminine job, her mention of being bad at math, and her openly asking for “guidance” in her difficulties but overall this statement of her’s at the end is very masculine, very “take charge”, very much about strategizing and being cerebral. She is presenting things as if the entire burden of having to “figure out” her situation and make her situation work is on her.

I wonder, what is Pancake’s fiancé’s role in all this? I get the feeling that this whole family mission is Pancake’s idea and Pancake’s dream and Pancake’s ambition and that the fiancé is just along for the ride. What is he doing as a man in all this? It shouldn’t even be the woman asking for help and guidance in this situation, it should be the man. It is the fiancé who should be asking the Christian Forum how to improve his financial situation and how he should plan things in order to be able to provide for as many children as possible in his future marriage but he is not the one asking for help here, it is Pancake instead.

The reason why Pancake is in this terrible bind where it looks like she cannot afford the children that she wants to have and that it may be years and years before there is enough financial security in her future marriage to feel comfortable with taking on the added expense of children is because her fiancé is absent from the scene not doing anything of substance to make Pancake’s plan’s for her family work. It is almost as if Pancake is a single mother or something trying to figure out how to do everything on her own and fretting that she won’t be able to make it.

Pancake is familiar with the Christian Patriarchy quiverfull families and admires them greatly and wants to emulate them in certain ways in particular by having many children but she seems to not even know the basics of how the real Christian Patriarchy quiverfull families actually do things or what the “secrets of their success” are. Does Pancake see her fiancé as the “head of household” with her as his helpmeet? I doubt it. Does she understand that in the Christian Patriarchy families the family mission itself is the man’s mission and the man’s purpose to serve God with the woman acting to empower and fulfill her husband’s Godly mission of raising a “quiverfull” of children for the Lord? How she is presenting things the family mission seems to be primarily her’s and not primarily her fiance’s. Does Pancake see it as her duty to obey her husband? Does Pancake see it as her husband’s responsibility to provide for all of her financial needs? Pancake doesn’t seem to understand any of this but this is the foundation of how the Christian Patriarchy quiverfull families that she admires so much actually work.

Also Pancake never mentioned home schooling her children. As a rule the Christian Patriarchy families home school their children in order to effectively pass on their counter-cultural values to their children. Home schooling also provides the advantage of giving individualized attention to the needs of each child that a public school cannot provide and allows the parents to control the social environment the kids exist in and the moral messages the kids are taught. Home schooling is also very cheap, providing for the needs of a child does not cost very much money when the mother is dedicating herself to the benefit of the child full-time.

Someone neglected their duty to morally teach and morally train Pancake it seems to me; the Christian community she is a part of seems to have let her down it seems to me because if she was taught properly she wouldn’t have gotten herself into this situation she is currently in where she seems to be pulling the load while her fiancé lays around and loafs.

Pancake relates tragically:

“I have considered putting off the wedding again, but we have been living together for two years already (I had did not have another place to live. My mom kicked me out at 18 because she stopped getting a Social Security check for me.) and we would really like to be legally married. I always thought that in my twenties I would be able to start a family, but it seems impossible. I pray for God to guide me in the right direction, but I am having trouble keeping faith. I really need some guidance.”

Yes, Pancake is very much in need of guidance; guidance she has not been given as a woman up to this point.

How I see things Jojo is taking a much better approach to her life goals here. Jojo is presenting herself in a very feminine way. Jojo is passive and submissive regarding what is the proper role of the man but assertive and planning ahead and ambitious regarding the proper role of the woman. Jojo understands that she can’t succeed as a woman on her own and is doing what she can to draw a man’s support to her. When a man enters into Jojo’s life she will have that man’s full and active support because she will demand that from the man first and her femininity and dedication to her feminine role will motivate that man to give to Jojo what she needs to succeed as a woman in her family goals. That is how a woman can draw to her the support a woman needs to succeed as a woman.

Pancake has fallen into the trap of taking on the man’s role and the man’s responsibilities and this is why her dreams of a happy family with many children seem out of reach to her. Pancake must somehow force her fiancé to become a man and take on the man’s role of providing for and protecting her and the children she wishes to bear with him; she must escape and renounce the false masculine identity she has taken on in her relationship.

I wish her luck and Godspeed that her fiancé will repent of his sins and become the man he needs to become to honorably and with good conscious marry Pancake.

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About Jesse Powell TFA

Anti-Feminist, MRA, Pro-Traditional Women's Rights Traditional Family Activist (TFA)
This entry was posted in Gender Politics Analysis, Religious Instruction and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

8 Responses to The Right Way and the Wrong Way for a Woman to Plan her Large Quiverfull Family

  1. mamaziller says:

    if you are also single, i hope that you consider a relationship with jojo!!

  2. Melissa says:

    Living together without the marriage commitment is likely a major factor in her confusion about herself, her femininity, her faith, her future, her relationship to the fiance and life in general. Although she claims to have had no choice, I doubt that is completely true. Living together without marriage degrades one’s dignity and results in confusion. It is truly sad how drastically the cohabitation rates have risen in just the last few years or so. In choosing that state she has disoriented herself, no wonder she struggles with her faith. By giving her body, heart and soul away to someone she has no lifelong commitment to, she has lost her ability to value the feminine role, and likewise the fiance appears to have done the same with his masculinity. As mentioned, it does seem as though they have switched roles in a sense.

  3. Your emphasis on the cohabitation part of the story is interesting. Indeed, the fact that Pancake is cohabiting and not married could explain a lot about the troubles going on in her relationship in terms of the gender roles being confused and weak. A large quiverfull family requires strong and clear gender roles to make work (and actually any marriage would benefit from strong and clear gender roles). How Pancake is presenting things there is no real problem in her relationship with the fiancé, all her problems are about money and the economy and her fiancé having bad luck in the job market right now and stuff like that. I’m suspicious of blaming things on the economy and money however, feminists do that all the time to justify women working while married and other feminist behaviors. To me the fact that Pancake’s education is getting a higher priority than her fiance’s education is a dead giveaway that the gender dynamic is not working right in the relationship.

    Cohabitation definitely leads to insecurity and lack of trust. The man is effectively admitting he is not man enough to marry while the woman is allowing herself to be used as a wife without the status and security of actually being a wife; in this way both the man and the woman are indeed either degrading themselves (in the case of the man) or allowing themselves to be degraded (in the case of the woman). Also, cohabitation has indeed skyrocketed in the past 10 years apparently leading to both a sharp fall in the marriage rate and a rise in the divorce rate.

    I did an earlier post at this website on the subject of cohabitation:

    The Threat of Rising Cohabitation
    https://secularpatriarchy.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/the-threat-of-rising-cohabitation/

    Long courtships of like 4 or 5 years for no obvious reason are becoming quite common in society today. A man and woman often get together in their early 20s but don’t marry until their late 20s simply based on the man dragging his feet it seems.

    If I was to give some advice to Pancake and her fiancé I would say that the fiancé and Pancake should move into the fiance’s parents’ home so that Pancake and her fiancé don’t have to support themselves at this current stage of their lives. There should be a no sex rule during this time when they are not yet married to each other. Pancake should domestically tend to the needs of her fiance’s parents to make herself valuable in the home and learn domestic skills and Pancake should also probably be getting a better religious education and find some conservative church to attend. In the meantime Pancake’s fiancé should be going to college full time until he gets a bachelor’s degree in something. Then Pancake and the fiancé can get married in 3 years time or however long it takes for the fiancé to get his bachelor’s degree. Then the relationship dynamic will be set straight with appropriate gender roles and the man will have some earning power and some confidence and then they can figure out how to live cheap and have a large family. If Pancake delays things for 3 years in this fashion she will be about 23 with many reproductive years left and so be able to have the large family that she wants.

  4. Jojo says:

    This is very interesting. She shouldn’t even be going to college in my opinion. She certainly shouldn’t transfer to another college so she can obtain a bachelor’s degree. Her fiancé should be the one in college. It makes no sense for the woman to be trying to further her career prospects if she envisions the same kind of life that I do. If anything she should’ve been the one to quit school to work. It wouldn’t have been as much of an issue since they’re not married and they don’t have children.

    I don’t see how she can expect to have a lot of children and have a career at the same time. If she plans on being a teacher that most certainly means her children will be attending school. I don’t think a woman should have children if she plans on being a full time teacher, unless she stops when she has children. There’s no way one could devote time and energy to taking care of her own while at the same time being responsible for the education of at least 20 other children. Even though teaching is a feminine profession, it’s still a career and one that will take her away from her domestic responsibilities.

    It’s funny, I was enrolled in college last year to do basically this same thing, get a teaching degree. I didn’t really want to be a teacher though, I just thought it might be a good way to prepare me for teaching my children. I figured I didn’t need it though. I’m capable of educating myself. I don’t want someone telling me what the best way to teach my child supposedly is anyway. I’ll figure that out come time.

    As far as affording a large family, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. I don’t think living on one income, even with a lot of children, is as terrifying as a lot of folks make it out to be. I could just be young and naive though. If need be, I’d be willing to work even when I’m married before children come along to save up money. I spend time thinking of ways to cut the cost of living instead of how to make more money. That’s what I think one of my responsibilities as a wife would be. If I were a wife, I’d find ways to save money, while my husband would be the one finding a way to make money if we needed it. I shouldn’t be the one worrying about an income. That’s what this lady should do. She should be thinking of ways to save money instead of how to make it.

    I’d like to be able to live by my own means though. It’d be nice if we didn’t even need that much money. I’d like to have a farm, just sufficient enough for my family. Grow my own food, raise livestock, hunt; things like that. That’s what I’m working on, well the growing food part. I’m also learning how to make my own clothes among other things.

    This “pancake” lady and I are on completely different paths to what seems like the same destination. It doesn’t really sound like she’s seeking a true traditional family. It seems more like a variation of a modern marriage.

    I’m mostly passive and submissive about a man’s role because I don’t think it’s my place to say how a man should be and what he should do. I have an idea in my head of course, and I do talk about it somewhat when I talk about the woman’s role, for contrasting purposes,but I don’t feel right in outright stating what a man’s job is. It’s not my place. It’s the place of other men.

    Oh and the cohabitation thing would never happen with me! I don’t see the point in even getting married if you’ve been living with someone already. Especially if there’s sex involved. The only real difference is how your relationship is viewed by the law. That’s not important to me. Marriage means much more than a license granted by the state.

    • Crystal says:

      While I disagree with Quiverfull I also disagree with the notion that Pancake should drop out of college. She can teach her children so much more if she sticks with higher education. How can women be good homemakers and mothers if they are NOT educated? A sincere question; please read Wollstonecraft’s A Vindication. Also I would recommend she get out of the Quiverfull lifestyle, fast! Have a large family by ALL means but Quiverfull is not an ethical way to do it!

  5. Melissa says:

    I agree, “Pancake” should drop out of school. The money (and effort) that she spends pursuing the education to have a career that she won’t even be working at considering that she wants a large family is truly a waste. Those things are just not compatible, despite what we are led to believe by the media, the education system, and our feminist culture.
    Although we know little about their relationship, it appears that she needs to start treating her husband like a man, and start behaving and thinking more like a woman herself. In other words, stop making excuses for him, start supporting his ideas (which may involve waiting for him to come up with some) and looking to him as a leader, which will hopefully influence him to move toward establishing himself in some decent-paying work, whether it involves more education or relocating or something else.
    Despite their current obstacles, they certainly do have time on their side. We can only hope that they will work things out!

  6. Hannahd says:

    I think pancake’s social class is a major issue here. Women from low ses white or black backgrounds often struggle to find quality men within their own communities. Coming from a low ses background myself I know the reality of this. Here in the UK I happen to think that white or black underclass women should go with foreign men. There are plenty of patriarchal communities in the UK. There are many men from countries like Somalia, china, nigeria, malaysia, India, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan who would make perfectly good husbands and fathers and take their responsibilities as men very seriously. It might mean a woman converting to islam, Sikhism, christianity or hinduism if she marries a man from one of these cultures but personally I don’t see an issue with this. Joining a religion would give the woman a good support network and plenty of support from female friends and relatives of her husband and his family when she goes onto have children, something that many western women sadly miss out on. Most underclass british men have not earned their right to be with women yet sadly these women continue to sleep with them and reproduce with them. I blame feminism completely for this. It allows men to completely shirk their responsibilities. It is a matriarchal society. Women and children suffer greatly in british low ses communities and women have to take on the men’s responsibilities and do all the work. Underclass men often have major issues with their behaviour. They often drink and gamble excessively, take drugs and end up in prison. They are also more likely to physically and sexually abuse women and children. When I heard about pancake’s Mother kicking her out because she wasn’t getting social security for her any more it raised alarm bells. Where did pancake meet her fiance? If he won’t get his act together pancake needs to break it off with him and meet someone else. In the USA there are plenty of conservative christian communities in which pancake can meet a husband. With the internet it has never been easier for people to find each other. In the UK there is just zero point in going out with western white or black men. They are either thugs or bums or indoctrinated by feminism. All the ones with good work ethic and an education expect a woman to take on male roles because feminism has taught them this. The only hope for low ses british women is with foreign men. There is no white conservative community here.

    • Crystal says:

      Please read the koran and tell me if the diabolical treatment ascribed to the fair sex therein is appropriate for men to practice on any woman.

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